Axel Timo Purr: We are meeting in Bandung, one of Indonesia’s major cultural hubs, with many colleges and universities and a thriving literary scene. When you see that, you tend to wonder how it came about. How has literature developed in Indonesia from the beginning to the present, and how has each era or period influenced the literary works of that era?

Nenden Lilis Aisyah: Talking about the development of Indonesian literature is actually a very complex matter due to the long history and vast territory of Indonesia, which consists of many and different languages, ethnic groups, religions, cultures, customs, etc. Before the emergence of modern literature, Indonesia had traditional literature in various regions. With the influx of Western culture and the development of technology, Indonesia also began to recognise modern literature. Indonesian modern literature goes through different eras with different characteristics. These different characteristics are due to the different social, political, cultural, etc. situations and conditions in each era. This means that the situation and conditions of each era are reflected in the aesthetics and content of the literary works of that era. As a description of the socio-cultural political conditions that influence literary works.

Norton

Recommended reading on Indonesia and its colonial history:  David Van Reybrouck | Revolusi: Indonesia and the Birth of the Modern World | W. W. Norton & Company | 645 pages | 16,90 USD

Indonesia is one of the countries that has been heavily colonised over the centuries, and censorship was part of the game, I suppose. What was the nature of the censorship or restriction of literary works in each of these periods?

During the Dutch colonial period, the Dutch established an institution called Balai Pustaka. Works published by this institution were not only examined linguistically (because they had to use high Malay), but also in terms of the content of the work. If the content of the work threatened the power of the Dutch, that part was removed or not published. During this period, there were also many literary works published by private publishers that talked about the nationalist movement, but the Dutch colonial government gave these works an image of being morally corrupt and of poor quality to prevent the public from reading them.
During the Japanese colonial period, Japan set up an institution called Keimin Bunka Shidoso. This institution carried out censorship and restrictions on literary works that were much stricter than the Dutch. Literary works published at that time even had to contain propaganda for Japan’s victory in Greater East Asia. As a result, the development of Indonesian literature was stunted during the Japanese colonial period. 
At the time of independence and the Sukarno administration, Indonesia adopted the principle of NASAKOM (Nationalism, Religion and Communism), as the Indonesian government at the time was more politically inclined towards the Soviet Union. At that time, each political party had a cultural institution. The most powerful and prominent cultural institution at that time was an institution under the Indonesian Communist Party (PKI) called LEKRA (Lembaga Kebudayaan Rakyat). LEKRA was so dominant that it required writers to write in the interests of communist ideology, such as siding with the common people and the communist party. This was not accepted by writers outside LEKRA, who joined a group called Manifestes Kebudayaan (MANIKEBU). During the old order period of Sukarno’s reign, there was a prolonged polemic between LEKRA and MANIKEBU. It can be said that the censorship of literary works was not carried out by the government, but by the LEKRA organisation, a group of writers who sided with communism. At that time, victory and power seemed to be in the hands of the LEKRA writers.
During the New Order era under Suharto, LEKRA writers were restricted and banned because the Indonesian government banned the ideology of communism. Many of the banned LEKRA writers left Indonesia to seek asylum abroad. For example, to France, Russia and other countries. They are often called exile writers. Their works were not allowed to circulate at the time and were banned in Indonesia, including the works of Pramoedya Ananta Toer. In addition, during the New Order era, works that criticised the New Order government were censored. To get around this, writers leaked the depravity and criticism of the New Order government by writing surrealist and symbolic works.
In the reform era, along with the period of openness, the attitude of the Indonesian government tends not to interfere in the censorship or restriction of literary works, so that writers can work more freely, censorship occurs only by the public on works that are considered to violate religion, norms or contain racism against ethnicity and religion. For a more complete explanation, please read my papers entitled:

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OUTLINE OF THE DEVELOPMENT OF INDONESIAN LITERATURE_Nenden_Lilis_Aisyah.pdf

 and  

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INDONESIAN LITERATURE DURING JAPANESE COLONIAL PERIOD_Nenden_Lilis_Aisyah.pdf

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Joshua Oppenheimer | The Act of Killing | 2012 | 159 MIN 

Most people in the West have only heard of the Indonesian mass killings of the 1960s from Joshua Oppenheimer’s two documentaries, The Act of Killing (2012) and The Look of Silence (2014), in which Oppenheimer re-enacted the killings with victims and perpetrators. Although Indonesia’s co-directors (some of them Anynomous) worked with Oppenheimer, the film is a Western perspective. I wonder what has happened to Indonesian literature in this regard.  Are there any literary works that deal specifically with the mass killings of people accused of being PKI in 1965 and 1966? 

You mean the killing of half a million PKI members, including their families and sympathisers, and the deportation of 12,000 political prisoners to Buru Island? This trilogy of events is considered a tragedy that turned the fate of PKI members, sympathisers and families into something sad. Event after event related to the 1965 tragedy disturbed the humanity of the issues raised in Indonesian literature from 1965 to 1998. One of the historical events was the exile of political prisoners to Buru Island. The events and tragedy of Buru Island entered the world of Indonesian literature through Ahmad Tohari’s novel Kubah (1980), Nh. Dini (1989), Mangunwijaya’s Durga Umayi (1991) and Pramoedya Ananta Toer’s Memora Nyanyi Sunyi Seorang Bisu (1995).
In addition to the literary works mentioned above, there are also several literary works that deal with the massacre of PKI sympathisers in Indonesia, including Sri Sumarah by Umar Kayam (1975), Jentera Lepas by Ashadi Siregar (1979), Mencoba Tak Tak Menyerah by Yudhistira Anm Massardi (1979), Ronggeng Dukuh Paruk by Ahmad Tohari (1984). In addition to literary works, there are also documentary films that deal with the massacres of 1965-1966, namely Jagal, Senyap, Nyala: Nyanyian yang Tak Lampus.
During the New Order under President Suharto, works about the massacre of PKI sympathisers, communist ideology and works by LEKRA writers were banned. However, during the reform era, these works began to circulate and be read by the public, although the themes and content of such works are still considered taboo by most Indonesians.

Chronology of May 1998 mass riots in Indonesia.

Speaking of massacres and their literary transformation, are there any literary works that deal specifically with the mass riots and ethnic Chinese massacre of 1998?

Of course, here are some titles of books that deal specifically with the tragedy of 1998; these books can be freely circulated and read by the Indonesian people at large, even though most Indonesians still consider it a taboo and sensitive issue:
- Seno Gumira Ajidarma, a short story entitled Clara in the short story collection Iblis Tidak Pernah Mati, published in 1999. It tells the story of a woman of Chinese descent who was tortured and raped during the May 1998 riots. 
- The novel Tears of My Brother (Air Mata Saudaraku) by S. Mara Gd. Publisher: Gramedia Pustaka Utama, 2004. S. Mara Gd is better known for his mystery and detective novels. In Air Mata Sauderaku, however, he takes up the theme of the 1998 riots in Surabaya. It tells the story of Hasan Tandoyo, a young Chinese businessman who went to Jakarta in May 1998 on a business trip. Hasan managed to return safely to Surabaya. But when he arrived in Surabaya, he found that his house and shop had been looted. His mother had been killed. And Lani, his younger sister, had been raped to the point of mental illness.
- The novel Red May 1998: When the Spirits Speak  (Mei Merah 1998, Kala Arwah Berkisah) by Naning Pranoto. Publisher: Buku Obor, 2018. It tells the story of a woman who was raped during the May 1998 riots. As a result, she became pregnant and severely depressed. After her baby was born, the woman committed suicide. Having become a ghost, her spirit tells of all the suffering that happened to her.
- Dewi Anggraeni’s My Pain My Country, a novel set against the backdrop of the May 1998 riots in Indonesia. The novel tells the story of a Chinese Indonesian woman during the riots that followed the fall of President Suharto. The English-language book tells the story of Irina’s family. They are Chinese Peranakans, who are nationalists. Her grandfather fought for independence. But his Chinese blood made Irina and her family victims.
In addition to the works mentioned above, there are of course many other works that tell about the tragic inicedents of 1998.

José Rizal | Noli Me Tángere | Ebook version by Project Gutenberg

Every country has some kind of important author or book. We Germans have Goethe, Thomas Mann and Günter Grass (the latter two Nobel Prize winners). Or take, for example, the Philippines and José Rizal and his Noli Me Tángere, which is still being discussed today? Is there a similar, very important and monumental work of literature that represents and sums up the history and culture of Indonesia?

Due to the complexity of the culture and social problems of the Indonesian nation, it is very difficult to name a single most important and monumental work that represents and summarises the history and culture of the Indonesian nation. Each author also writes about the history, culture and socio-political criticism of their respective regions. Therefore, I can only mention a few writers who are considered quite prominent among many other important writers.  Firstly, I recommend the book Bumi Manusia Tetralogy (consisting of three novels entitled Bumi Manusia, Jejak Langkah and Rumah Kaca) written by Pramoedya Ananta Toer. The novel depicts the history of the nation and Indonesian culture during the Dutch colonial period. In this novel, there is also a very strong and progressive female character named Nyai Ontosoroh.
In the field of poetry, I can mention the names of great writers who have produced many monumental works of poetry that can be a representation and reflection of Indonesia, namely Muhamad Yamin (milestone of modern Indonesian poetry), Chairil Anwar (pioneer of 45 generation literature), Amir Hamzah (milestone of new generation poetry), WS. Rendra, Taufiq Ismail, Sutardji Calzoum Bachri, Sapardi Djoko Damono and Goenawan Mohamad. There is also Remy Silado, whose novels and poems have much to say about the history and culture of the Indonesian people. For the literature of the Pujangga Baru period (1930s), there are phenomenal works by Sutan Takdir Alisyahbana and Armin Pane. 
In the field of drama, I recommend the works of great playwrights and directors, Arifin C. Noer and Nano Riyantiyarno.
In contemporary fiction, I recommend the works of Oka Rusmini and Ayu Utami. In contemporary Indonesian popular literature, I recommend the works of Dewi Lestari and Andrea Hirata.

Agus R. Sarjono and his essay Ping on top of Pong @literatur.review

Since you just mentioned contemporary fiction, I would like to go into more detail here: how has Indonesian literature developed in the 2000s until now? That is, after the heavily censored period of the New Order and President Suharto?

Since the 2000s, the period of reform and opening up, the development of literature has been very open. Various kinds of literary works were freely created. Literature that had previously received little attention, such as Islamic literature, feminist literature, popular literature, fringe literature, green literature and many others, began to appear. According to Indonesian literary critic Korrie Layun Rampan, there are many names of Indonesian writers in the Class of 2000. In the field of fiction, for example, there are the names of the earlier mentiond Dewi Lestari (romance, idealism, science fiction, etc.) and  Ayu Utami (many themes of feminism and women’s body issues and science fiction), Oka Rusmini (also many themes of feminism and Balinese culture), Helvy Tiana Rosa (raising Islamic themes to become popular among the wider community to create a new type of literature called ISPOLIT or Islamic Popular Literature), Leila S. Chudori (with her background as a journalist, she raised many socio-political historical events that had been silenced. The content of her novels tells stories of honesty, faith and determination, principles and sacrifice) and many more.)
Then, in the field of poetry, there are names such as Acep Zamzam Noor (the theme of his poetry varies from poetry with the theme of atmosphere, religion, love and social criticism), Afrizal Malna (many themes of the modern world and urban life, as well as material objects from the environment), Agus R Sarjono (his poems are mostly about social criticism), Joko Pinurbo (his poems contain many reflections and contemplations that touch on everyday absurdities), Dorothea Rosa Herliani and myself, Nenden Lilis A (my poems are mostly about social criticism, individual reflection and feminism), and many more, of course. 
In the field of short stories, there are names like Seno Gumira Ajidarma, Joni Aria Dinata, Djenar Maesa Ayu, Linda Christanty and many more. In addition to the names already mentioned, there are many more names of writers who are actually important but cannot be mentioned individually due to space limitations.
There is also a special phenomenon in the literature of the 2000s, which is that many literary developments have been dominated by themes of women and feminism.  

We have talked about so-called „high literature“, which is selling less and less in Germany. The opposite is popular literature, young adult novels, which are really booming. What kind of popular literature is currently developing in Indonesia? You've already mentioned two names earlier, I think...

There are different types, including chicklit, teenlit, ladlit, personalit and the unique Ispolit (Islamic popular literature). Themes include mental health, scifi (science fiction), comedy, love and others. Authors of Ispolit literature include Helvy Tiana Rosa, Asma Nadia, Habiburahman El Shirazy and others. Popular literary figures of the Personalite type are Raditya Dika, Ladlit: Aditya Mulya, Love or Romance: Dewi Lestari (DEE), Pidi Baiq, Tere liye. Andrea Hirata writes novels about education and many more.  
I can confirm what you say about the German book market, that popular literature is more popular than high literature, which can be seen, among other things, in the number of reprints of the same book, which can experience up to dozens of reprints.
In addition, many works of popular literature are filmed by film producers. The main thing that film producers take into consideration when bringing a work to the screen is its popularity. When a popular literary work is made into a film, people flock to see the film, and the audience is always full every time it is shown. This is different from high literature, which is rarely reprinted, except for very phenomenal works. Even then, the reprints are for a period of years.
Also, high literature writers are currently publishing more indie books, where they offer their books for pre-order and then print their books according to the number of orders. Another example of how popular literature sells better comes from my experience as a university lecturer. Before the lecture at the beginning of the semester, I always ask the students what literary books they have read before, and the answers they give are the titles of popular literature books. Out of 30 students in the class, only 2 or 3 of them mentioned the titles of works of high literature.

You have used the term feminism several times, which may come as a surprise to most Western readers who do not expect feminism to come from an Islamic culture. Could you please explain the development of feminist literature in Indonesia?

You said that Western readers might be surprised to hear about the development of feminism in a predominantly Muslim country. The term feminism is indeed Western in origin. But the principle of equality and the rights of women and men is one of the values that Islam has long held. The Prophet Muhammad SAW, for example, taught how men should treat women well, how women and men should work together and love each other in fulfilling their roles in both the domestic and public spheres. Women are given fair inheritance rights with men. It is also taught that the first to be honoured by a child is its mother, and then its father. Even the Qur’an says: „The highest degree in the sight of Allah is the most pious." So the highest degree is not seen in terms of their gender, but in terms of their piety.  With such values, the conflict between the degrees of women and men in the archipelago or in Indonesia, which is predominantly Muslim, is not too sharp. In the archipelago, many kingdoms have been ruled by women. For example, the Sultanate of Aceh, where almost the entire population is Muslim, was once ruled by a queen, Sultanah Safiatudin.
So Islam is not anti-feminist! Islam only disagrees with certain strains of feminism, such as those that go as far as lesbianism and so on. In this context, there is less discrimination against women in literature in Indonesia. Women’s names and works are still recorded in literary history.
However, although Islam, which is practised by the majority of Indonesians, teaches equality and justice between men and women, society’s views on the position of women are also strongly influenced by patriarchal social and cultural values, which are not necessarily derived from religion but from values that have been deeply rooted in society for a long time. Many interpretations of religious laws are also influenced by these cultural values. It is not surprising, therefore, that women are then placed more in the domestic sphere and stereotyped with things that are less favourable to women.  Such views and social values ultimately affect women’s creative process, so that numerically fewer women than men publish their work.
Women tend to be passive, and the burden of household chores makes them lose time for work. In addition, due to this social and cultural patriarchal view, criticism of the quality of literary works produced by women is less proportional, so that women’s works are less recognised or marginalised. However, since the 1990s, women have started to actively carry out movements to show their existence in literature, for example, by publishing anthologies of women’s works, forming literary communities or organisations exclusively for women, organising literary events exclusively for women, researching and excavating buried works by women, and much more. I myself have written a lot in newspapers about women’s issues in literature. In addition, together with other friends, I founded a women-only literary community in West Java called Komunitas Sastra Dewi Sartika.  With such efforts, the literary landscape in Indonesia is now much better and fairer in its positioning of works and writers between men and women.
For a more detailed overview of feminism in Indonesian literature, please read my essay:

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OUTLINE OF THE DEVELOPMENT OF INDONESIAN LITERATURE_Nenden_Lilis_Aisyah.pdf

in the section that specifically discusses the development of feminist literature in Indonesia - although even this text is still too simplistic and doesn’t cover all the nuances.

I am still amazed that this is happening. Has there been any opposition from religious groups to the feminist literary movement in Indonesia?

There has been opposition from religious groups, but it has not been extreme or too violent. There have been cases of strong opposition, but very few. One example is the film Perempuan Berkalung Sorban, based on the novel of the same name by Abidah El Khalieqy. Perempuan Berkalung Sorban is about women’s resistance to the patriarchal culture of Islam. At the time it was rejected by Islamic groups, even by the imam of Jakarta’s Istiqlal Mosque.

Thank you very much for this interview!

I must thank you and add that my answers about Indonesian literature are actually too simplistic because Indonesian literature is actually very complex. Besides, there are many works and writers that are also important and influential, but they are not mentioned in my answers because of my limitations in this situation of an interview. It would take a very long essay to discuss them all comprehensively.